Warning: OPINIONS AHEAD. Not facts, so if you are just here for the info, feel free to skip this entry. Feel free to ask questions or debate if you feel like it, but keep the flames down.
If you are ready, then click to see what they are.
1. I don’t ship the Ryuuki-Shuurei relationship. I think I’m nearly alone in the fandom on this. XD
2. In a lot of ways, the novels are massively flawed. Glacial character development, wasted time, poor pacing, superfluous characters, thematic retconning.
3. As clumsily as the transition was handled, I prefer the general tone and worldbuilding of the later novels to those of the beginning part.
4. I don’t really understand the fascination w/ the Shuuei-Kouyuu relationship. Obviously I don’t care what people do in their fanfiction, but I don’t find their relationship to be terribly interesting.
5. I like the political plot in the novels better than the mystical one.
6. In many ways, the backstory of Saiunkoku is more interesting than the current story.
December 3, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Well I am not sure I agree with you on most but I definitely agree with you about No. 5. I actually think the mystical plot line is a weak point of the story. The magic in the story just seems to be very random. I prefer magic in my fantasy stories to have more rules so to speak. The political plot is interesting because it the Saiunkoku world mirrors ancient China. As a history fan I think that’s really neat. The series even got me to take a book out on the exam system in ancient China.
I also don’t think I specifically like the Shuuei/Kouyuu relationship but I am quite fond of the Shuuei/Ryuuki/Kouyuu relationship.
As for Shuurei/Ryuuki I do ship them but I only want them to end up together if it means Shuurei doesn’t have to give up her career as an official. And of course that does seem to be an issue that I am not sure how they will get around.
December 3, 2009 at 7:06 pm
She’s tried to develop it, but it seems tacked on and too little, too late. IMHO she really doesn’t have much of an excuse either, because mystical elements were part of the story from the beginning, too, and the magic is too obvious (there seem to be quite a lot of people w/ magical powers, etc), for it to be so underdeveloped and underdiscussed in the storyline. IMHO either the author needs to establish the magic in the beginning, after which they don’t need to develop what has been developed before, or treat it as a central thread (Saiunkoku has gone whole volumes w/o anything significantly magical happening)
Yeah, I like that better. Actually I find the relationship between Shuuei and Ryuuki more interesting than the one between Shuuei and Kouyuu.
Indeed… IMHO I think it’s missing the point if you think that Shuurei should give up her career to marry Ryuuki. My final opinion of the relationship will rest on how the author resolves the issue.
December 4, 2009 at 12:09 am
I just don’t see where “superfluous characters and thematic retconning” are; could I have your opinion on this?
December 4, 2009 at 7:55 pm
By superfluous: how the author seems to have no idea what do w/ certain characters, such Kouyuu and Seiran, for long periods.
Thematic retconning: How in the beginning there are no hints that Ryuuki is screwing up (or that Shuuei and Kouyuu are helping him), but later Ryuuki’s incompetence as king and his mistake in becoming king for Shuurei’s sake become one of the main plots.
December 5, 2009 at 4:06 am
The characters, I think, are “reserved” for future use. Kouyuu was the main character in vol.13, and Seiran might play a more important role as the story nears its ending. There are more characters who’ve been put aside for long periods: 碧珀明，茗才，世罗，伯邑，蝴蝶，even 三太。。。IMHO They might just have to be there. Is there a better way?
Yes, it was a major transition from vol.8光碧 to vol.9红梅. Before Shuurei returned from Sa province, politics of the central court was rarely mentioned.
December 5, 2009 at 4:10 am
Well, we’ll see, but I dislike how long a lot of the things take. It perhaps is the weakness of the serial form.
Yeah, that transition. Unlike many of the fans, I like the post vol 9 stuff better, but it creates a lot of inconsistencies.
December 4, 2009 at 1:15 am
I like the Shuurei/Ryuuki relationship personally, but I have also wondered about a Shuurei/Seiran relationship. That’s a pairing I’ve always liked. >3
December 4, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Eh, I think that in the books it’s been kind of been off the table for a long time. If anything, at this point a relationship between Shuurei and Ensei seems more plausible.
December 4, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Aw, darn.
Ah well.
Thank you for your earlier suggestion about bit torrenting the second series, btw. I was able to get the first half downloaded last night and after downloading the correct player, I’m able to see the episodes now.
December 4, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Good to hear you were successful. Anyway, they take out a lot of the parts that set up the story for what’s going on in the current novels from the anime.
December 5, 2009 at 4:26 am
I tried posting earlier but it didn’t go through. What I was trying to say was, I’m still watching the anime because while I know it’s different from the manga, I want to see what the differences are. I still want to read the manga, and should the light novels ever be translated and released in English, I would love to read them. For now I have to look for partial translations online done by fans. I would try it myself, but I don’t read or understand nearly as much Japanese as I would need to in order to be able to do such a thing.
I have read some parts of the light novels that have been translated, so as I’m watching the anime, I’m looking to see what’s left in and what’s been taken out.
December 19, 2009 at 11:12 am
“Eh, I think that in the books it’s been kind of been off the table for a long time. If anything, at this point a relationship between Shuurei and Ensei seems more plausible.”
Yes! That is exactly how I feel! *giddy* Personally, I feel that Ensei seems to be more suited to Shuurei than anyone else. I really hope those two end up together! ^_^
December 5, 2009 at 4:29 am
@Nicole:
Oh, was just warning you. The manga are mostly translated, IIRC. They’re mostly like the anime, although I’m wondering if they’re going to start introducing characters even earlier than they were introduced in the novels to improve foreshadowing.
December 5, 2009 at 4:36 am
Ooh ok, sorry for my misunderstanding then. Thank you for the warning! I have yet to get my hands on any of the manga, but I’ve read what’s available (and translated into English) online. The manga seemed to follow the anime from what I saw, but didn’t go past season 1 (I think).
December 5, 2009 at 4:40 am
Eh, I think IIRC the manga follows the books more, and adds in some things that aren’t in the books, but on the whole, the changes are trivial. The manga is still ongoing, and yeah, IIRC it has just moved into the first Sa Province arc.
December 5, 2009 at 4:53 am
Ah, guess I need to watch more then.
My information is lacking. Thanks for the correction.
Stupid question, but what does IIRC mean?
December 5, 2009 at 5:01 am
Yeah, I know, it’s hard to get information.
IIRC=If I recall correctly.
Other abbreviations I use
BTW=By the way
IMHO=In my humble opinion
AFAIK=As far as I know
December 5, 2009 at 5:04 am
Thanks for sharing.
The first two I know, but “AFAIK” is a new one I’ll have to remember. First time I’ve heard “IIRC” too.
Ok I’m done, I’ll stop plugging up your post with my comments. xD Thank you so much for your help and for all you’ve shared. As I discover more about the series, I hope to get as caught up as everyone else here seems to be.
December 5, 2009 at 5:36 am
I guess my opinions about Saiunkoku are a bit twisted.
As for pairing and the various genres (dealing with point no 1 and 5) – in the beginning when Shuurei was still a consort, I was interested in the pair but as the story proceeded I realised that the story revolves more around politics than romance. Plus there has been hardly any development in Ryuuki-Shuurei’s relationship in terms of love. It always seemed to be one sided though there are a few points here and there hinting that Shuurei has feelings for him. I didn’t read the novels but judging from the anime and the translations I personally feel that the author couldn’t maintain a balance between the various genres -supernatural, political and romantic. Somehow I feel the story could survive without supernatural elements. I find the introduction of immortals rather unnecessary for the whole plot in general. In the start (novel 1) we had romantic aspects but later it dealt more with politics with bits of mystic and romantic plots. The supernatural plots have always been unclear and thereby didn’t interest me much but unfortunately the author seems to dump and compress everything relating immortals, the Hyos, the Bara Hime conflict in this novel. Guess it would be much appreciative if she dealt with these parts slowly with consistency in the earlier novels.
And when it comes to characterization and a few other things (point no 2) I completely agree. I personally feel that major flaws have been made in these aspect. The author guaranteed that Ryuuki would be a great emperor but it’s rather unconvincing given that for most of the time he played the part of a lovesick puppy. I agree that she made Ryuuki lovable but he’s not respectable. There has to be something strong to show that he’s a capable leader and has good leadership qualities. Though Ryuuki intends to be a good emperor he didn’t make a move till date to show that he has that potential.Personally I feel she didn’t handle him well either.
Another issue that I don’t understand is the reason she highlighted Seiran’s character so much if she doesn’t want to use him when the story reached the climax. I feel that in the earlier volumes he was focused more than any other male character. At some point of time I thought that Seiran would take up the throne but it’s a silly assumption considering the present situation. He has been more or less like a side character in the recent volumes. So I guess she threw more light on his character than necessary.
Another aspect is the major flaws in the timeline. Well, this point is self explanatory. When you calculate the ages of a few characters (considering the time during which certain events took place in the past) it is found that they are wrong.
Yup! The backstories are DEFINITELY more interesting than the present once. I find them more touching, more sensible and meaningful as they clear more doubts than creating new loopholes. I also find that the central characters of these back stories (Especially Shouka) more interesting than the once in the present. But it’s sad to see that they don’t have much space in the current story. Judging from these Gaiden stories they should play more important roles.
December 5, 2009 at 5:39 am
Just to avoid confusion I name myself Spectra. Well, the one who commented anonymously above is me.
December 5, 2009 at 5:45 am
I read your post and something you said resonated with me. As I’ve familiarized myself with the story and the characters (still a WIP though), I too have noticed that – there’s less emphasis on romance and more on politics, at least where I am in season 2 of the anime anyways.
I think that’s one of the reasons I’m still watching… I do like the characters, and the plot is interesting, but the captivation I had with the series in season 1 (especially the first half of season 1) is gone. There’s very little romance right now. And so on some sad little level, I think I’m still watching because I want to see what happens with Shuurei and Ryuuki (if anything), with Seiran, and if there are any other matchups. I got hooked on the anime because it looked like a historical-romantic-comedy, and now more than anything it’s a political romance, with not much romance. Even what I’ve read of the light novels had more romance than the anime.
Don’t get me wrong, I still like the series very much. I just wish there was more romance in it.
December 5, 2009 at 5:57 am
Yeah, exactly. I wish there was more of romantic stuff. Well, in the start I continued to watch this series because I wanted to see more development in Ryuuki and Shuurei’s relationship. So I completely understand you.
As for the romantic plots I find a few unnecessary pairings made by the author – like Kouyuu and Shuurei. And I didn’t understand either the reason Ensei had romantic feelings. I like Ensei’s character and I think that by making Ensei develop those kind of feelings she did injustice to his character and he seems to be OOC. Ensei always seemed to be somewhere between a brother, a friend and teacher.
Instead of some of these impossible pairings the author could have focused more on Ryuuki and Shuurei’s.
Basically I don’t approve of the way she’s dealing with Romantic aspects
December 5, 2009 at 5:59 am
BTW I’m speaking about Ensei and Shuurei’s relationship.
December 5, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I agree. The Kouyuu-Shuurei one doesn’t bother me too much, but the Ensei-Shuurei one (I thought I was seeing hints of that in the anime but I wasn’t sure) strikes me as unnecessary. And I too wish she would spend more time on Ryuuki and Shuurei’s relationship.
December 6, 2009 at 12:55 am
Yeah, that’s something else: Shuurei’s feelings for Ryuuki seem very underdeveloped in a romantic sense. I get the sense she cares about him as a person, but it’s also interesting that it’s never occurred to Shuurei that Ryuuki and she could be together if Ryuuki abdicated.
The Immortals have actually at this point become necessary to the plot. IMHO the problem is that they were simply randomly thrown in before.
I have never really been able to figure out what Seiran’s role in the current plot is supposed to be: maybe he’ll do something, maybe not. If he doesn’t, that’ll be quite annoying. It seems all he does in the present book (from what I can gather from spoilers) is be criticized by Kouki. XD
December 6, 2009 at 12:47 am
As a matter of fact I thought I would be the last person on earth criticizing the story. Previously I trusted in Yukino Sai and was blind to the flaws made but I find the recent novel a bit disappointing. (though I guess it’s too early to judge with the spoilers as the base.)
December 6, 2009 at 12:58 am
It’s hard for me to tell… Now that I’ve seen more spoilers, I do want to read the novel, however.
December 6, 2009 at 1:20 am
Charmian, I agree with you on most of your points except that I actually liked and supported the Ryuuki/Shuurei relationship. Notice I used “past tense” because I’ve frankly decided to quit actively and seriously pursuing this series. The writing flaws and inconsistencies are quite a turn off for me. Perhaps in a year or two, if I’m still alive and I’m curious, I’ll see if the writer has improved. I just cannot follow a series where the characters don’t change and grow. It’s one of the things I look forward to when reading a series and even more so when the series span a number of years.
But regarding the popularity of the Ryuuki/Shuurei pairing, I believe the anime is to blame because it is quite deceiving in its own way in that it was sort of heavy-handed in the faux foreshadowing of the Ryuuki/Shuurei relationship. I had no knowledge of the series before Netflix recommended it to me based on Twelve Kingdoms. When I started watching it, I thought that Ryuuki and Shuurei were the main protagonists and the story seemed like a combination of romance and politics. However, after I learned about novel details, I realized otherwise. So really, I believe the ship is popular primarily because of the anime.
In terms of characterizations, after watching the second season of the anime, I was especially confused by Ryuuki’s characterization and wondered if that’s the way it actually happened in the books . As a matter of fact, I discussed it with a fellow fan and I told her that it’s almost as if there was a regression in Ryuuki’s role as an Emperor in the second season. In the first season he was praised for his sagacity and forethought when dealing with the Sa province especially with his preparations for the newly dispatched governors. There were also hints that he wasn’t entirely hopeless at court and raised insightful opinions. However, in the second season he’s revealed to be quite the contrary at court. Somehow I think that this should have been handled in the reverse or handled more evenly. He should have never gotten the kind of praise that he did in the first season. Yes, we learned that he was not in fact stupid, but at least give us a hint that he was far from being politically astute or something. I just think that the whole thing was poorly executed.
I also find the Shuuei-Ryuuki-Kouyou relationship much more interesting. Actually, I like the Shuuei-Ryuuki relationship best.
I’ve already voiced my opinion on characters like Seiran who are just there and doesn’t appear to have a purpose. Yet, the author keeps introducing more characters while sacrificing character development. At least that’s how I see it anyway.
December 6, 2009 at 1:45 am
Actually, I would argue that Shuurei has changed a bit in the last few books. Ryuuki has at least become aware of his own flaws as ruler, so I find that interesting. It’s not necessarily a rule in fiction that characters must change. Sometimes it can be interesting enough to see how they react to changing circumstances. A Ryuuki forced to confront total defeat and collapse is a bit different from the Ryuuki who didn’t have to face such problems before.
Yeah, the anime doesn’t do a good job showing that, but in the animators’ defense, this wasn’t apparent in the books either up till post vol 10, so it can’t be helped in the case of the first season.
I’m not sure whether Seiran will end up having a purpose or not. He may, so I’m withholding my judgment on that.
I guess this is the problem with making up the story as you go along. Right now the dramatic weight of the story falls on the newer characters.
December 6, 2009 at 2:11 am
No, it’s not necessarily a rule, but I think that if a story is going to take place over several years like this one, the characters should grow and change especially in the case of characters like Ryuuki and Shuurei who are young adults. The change doesn’t necessarily has to be drastic because it all depends on their circumstances. Reacting to their circumstances and forming no resolution is also quite useless, imo. I also have no problem with Ryuuki facing total defeat and challenges. I think it would be quite interesting. However, what’s important to me is that it will result in character development even if he is deposed and exiled. Reactions are all well and good, but I prefer the growth that will result from the circumstances. I want to see how circumstances shape and influence these characters for good or bad.
Like another fan said to me last week, its like some of the characters in this story just sit back and let their fate happen without actively taking an interest. lulz. Well, i sort of paraphrase what she said but it was something like that and I thought it was an interesting observation.
December 6, 2009 at 2:17 am
Actually, only for two years. IMHO, though, Shuurei has changed. Actually, I’m really curious about what will happen to Ryuuki in the next volume, though. He’s never really been put into this situation.
Oh, where was this? Is there someplace where these kinds of conversations are taking place?
December 6, 2009 at 2:35 am
Yes, I am aware that it’s been two years.
Maybe I just expected better development than what actually exists. As to the next volume, to me it would be the perfect opportunity for character growth for Ryuuki especially if this is rock bottom for him. It’s about time that the writer give him a backbone even if it comes at the price of the thing that he holds most dear.
lol Nay, no public forum. I have private mail exchanges with a fellow fan though her interest is sort of low right now.
@Nicole, I don’t mind the introduction of some of those new characters because they were necessary to the political plot but some of them just seem superfluous.
December 6, 2009 at 2:17 am
Oh, and when I talk of character change, I’m not talking about the older characters.
December 6, 2009 at 2:16 am
I would agree Shuurei has changed a little too, as well as Ryuuki. And perhaps Seiran as well, at least in the anime.
I just finished episode 16 and saw him get some praise from Shuurei and he reacted a little differently than normal… I’m still hoping he’ll have a purpose because he’s one of my favourite characters next to Ryuuki.
@ Celebrianna – I too think that perhaps a few too many new characters have been introduced (again, from what I can see in the anime anyways).
December 6, 2009 at 2:18 am
Annnd scratch that, that came out sounding dumber than I thought it would. My apologies.
December 6, 2009 at 2:19 am
I think it’s less that they haven’t changed, but that a lot of the change is so slow.
The amount of new characters is much less jarring in the novels, I think, because the novels have more information on them, and the anime cuts out characterization scenes for the newer characters, making them appear thinner.
December 6, 2009 at 2:47 am
@Celebrianna:
I agree. I think the author is leading towards that. Maybe she’ll even shock the hell out of all of us and have Ryuuki not end up w/ Shuurei. A lot of the Japanese bloggers are even saying they don’t want them to end up together if things are going to go this way.
December 6, 2009 at 3:01 am
Actually, that wouldn’t be shocking to me. It sort of make the most sense to me with the way things are currently and it’s not totally unexpected to me. As much as I wanted Ryuuki and Shuurei to be together (I still blame the anime), how they get there is just as important to me. So, just throwing them together would be absolutely unacceptable for me.
And, honestly, right now I have no idea where this story is headed with all the supernatural mumbo jumbo. lol That’s another reason why I’ve decided to quit. See, fiction is a HUGE deal for me so it really does matter to me what I read and watch in my spare time.
December 6, 2009 at 3:15 am
It would be shocking for me because in shoujo the male and female lead not getting together is shocking. But at this point I can almost believe that the author is working up to an ending w/ that happening.
Yeah, neither do I. I have no idea where the political plot is going either. Well, I hope she finishes the story soon. I just want to figure out what happens at the end.
December 6, 2009 at 3:29 am
Like I probably mentioned before, this is my first shoujo story and probably my last one. Anyway, I gather Shoujo is supposed to be like a love story. To me what would be most shocking or maybe unusual about this story is that it ends with only one person being in love during its entirety. Even some Shounen stories have more romance than this story. They love to beat the annoying love triangle to death.
Perhaps it will end with Ou Ki being crowned Emperor.
You never know.
December 6, 2009 at 3:41 am
This is off-topic, so my apologies to charmian, but if you like shoujo, two of my all-time favourite shoujo (as in love story in the sense you mentioned) are “Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou” (“His and Her Circumstances”) and “Mars.” Both are quite shoujo, but very realistic (not fantasy, sorry) and I really really enjoyed them both. “The Vision of Escaflowne” is my all-time favourite anime, but the ending is bittersweet and so if you want a happy ending I don’t recommend it.
December 6, 2009 at 5:33 am
Haha! Well when it comes to this series I’m prepared for the worse.
Yeah, I was (till last week) a big supporter of Shuurei and Ryuuki’s pairing and was positive that they would end up together but right now with the way things are going I’m not sure if the series will have a widely accepted “Happy Ending”. Well, maybe Shuurei and Ryuuki love story will have an uncertain end like that in the anime in which it is upto the reader to decide whether they’ll end up or not. Though I guess that wouldn’t be satisfactory.
BTW, is marriage the ONLY WAY these two can get together? Maybe by being an official close to Ryuuki, Shuurei can still kill erase his loneliness and understand him at a deeper level.
December 6, 2009 at 6:34 am
*cry* The ending of the anime is uncertain?? T___T Guess that’s my cue to stop posting here for awhile til I can finish the anime, lol. Just downloading the second half now.
December 6, 2009 at 10:12 am
I guess the word ‘vague’ would be a better substitute.
If you consider the anime as the original source of the story and the last episode of season 2 as the final end then it doesn’t look an unhappy ending. Well, it doesn’t confirm whether Shuurei and Ryuuki will get married. It’s upto the viewer to decide what would be their fate.
But that part of the anime greatly differs from the LN story.
December 6, 2009 at 11:37 am
Spectra, now that you no longer support the Ryuuki-Shuurei pairing, what becomes your primary interest in this story? Seeing Ryuuki become a competent emperor? Seeing Shuurei become a renowned official? Seeing Seiran become pertinent to the plot? Or, just overall seeing how the various parts, supernatural and non-supernatural tie together?
@Nicole, thanks for the recommendations. I must admit that I’m more partial to fantasy though. Nevertheless, I’ll see if Netflix has these titles.
December 6, 2009 at 2:48 pm
@ Celebrianna
That is an interesting question.
Well I was interested all those plot lines of the story that you mentioned above.
But I’ve lost my faith in the author that she’ll do any justice to those parts of the story.
That which still keeps me glued to Saiunkoku is Yusshan’s character. I want to know about his past, it’s connection with the present, his intentions and to where his loyality lies, the reason he agreed to become the PM, his relationship with Sai Rin, Reishen and Kou Kijin and above all what is that for which he’s risking his neck.
Apart from that I’m also curious about Ouki, Anju and Kouki. I wonder what is Ouki upto and what exactly is he planning to do to trigger the situation inorder to snatch the throne with a majority of officials by his side.
In short I’m more interested in the negative characters involved in politics than the once on Ryuuki’s side as I, like you, agree with Merilsell that they seem to do nothing but go the way the fate carries them.
December 7, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Ahaha, Spectra, you describe one of my primary motivations for continuing the series. XD I’m also into the political characters and the ones who are rather antagonistic.
Yuushun is probably at this point one of my favorite characters. I’m curious as to his motivations and intentions.
I’m also curious about the past which he seems to share with Ou Ki, Anju, and Kouki, and their backstories. That seems to be the largest mystery in the series at this point.
December 8, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Glad to hear that I’m not the only wierdo who finds these men in mid 30s interesting.
December 8, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Well, you and me, that makes two. XD It’s honestly kind of weird to have so many older people in a shoujo series, and have them be such prominent characters.
December 6, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Mhm seems like a gathering of most of my SaiMono fellows here xD *waves to Cele and Spectra*
I´m actually the one who had said that Sai Yukino let her characters just watch and don´t react…not to speak of ACTING on their own to those situations. To me they just sit there and let others do their thing. That´s a big no-no to do in fiction ( no matter if SaiMono is “just” shojo) and a huge turn off for me, also the way she´s handling Ryuuki for example. She´s not only missing to give him some character development since novel 12…no she decided to make him the biggest idiot ever faced Saiunkoku´s green grass.
Ugh.
From what I heard till now Ryuuki is used by her to make the story mooooar dramatical/angsty, yet it appears to me that doing this makes it slowly but sure ridiculous. There has to be limits to pile obstacles in front of her characters, dammit. (well but apparently NOT for that author D:) Vol. 15 would have been a good opportunity to solve some of those but it seems like she´s just making it worse (in terms of character development and obstacles) I slowly get the impression that the author doesn´t know HOW to solve the mess she has created herself.
I mean whatever reason is there for bringing Sera-hime up now out of the blue? It´s just so rubbish. All the time the talk about “Shuurei being the only Kou princess and all” It just contradicts EVERYTHING she´s saying before. Lame, lame, laaaame, plot device to make everything even moooar dramatic D:
Seems like Sera- hime is going to be Saiunkoku´s very first Mary Sue, w00t o__O Well judged by her description (she is not only beautiful, but also very intelligent and talented AND appears out of nowhere to save the day) Makes my Mary Sue detector ringing ALOUD >.>
Also the thing with the locust plaque. I agree that it might be a heavens sign or something but in writing terms it just seems to me like a lame excuse to give Ou-Ki moooar power D: Is it just me or is that woman lacking ideas?
Sorry for the long rant but I have to get this off my chest xD I´m a fairly long time and passionate supporter of the series (since Feb 09) and quite knowledgeable in it, but all the infos of vol. 15 till now are pushing me away from it. Which I found a pity to do after all cuz I still like the characters and its world. But I hugely disagree how she´s treating her characters…I mean it´s not just Ryuuki who would need a kick in the ass (= character development.) If the story goes on in that lousy way how it looks like it is now, I´ll finish my FF´s for it and will move on to another series. (Which i have partly done already, cuz Dragon Age: origin is awesome
)
December 7, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Yeah, as bad as Ryuuki was in vol 14, it seems he’s even worse in vol 15! At least according to what all of the bloggers say. XD I really don’t know why she seems to be piling on all the obstacles. It’s getting kind of out of control. I suppose it’s to keep the readers reading to see just how the author will resolve everything.
Eh, but the existence of Sera-hime has always been known? This isn’t the first mention. She was mentioned earlier and in vol 14. I don’t agree she’s a Sue because we haven’t seen her yet and we don’t know if her existence really solves anything at all.
I’m personally going to keep reading because I want to see how the story ends. It’s easier for me because I’m not invested in the Ryuuki-Shuurei relationship also, I suppose.
December 8, 2009 at 12:58 pm
What I fear the most is that the author is going to use the supernatural elements i.e, the immortals to resolve the political conflicts.
Judging by the way she’s confidently throwning so many obstracles infront of her characters(as well as herselves coz by doing so she’s making the story more complicted)she must have had something strong in her mind but whatever it is I hope she has a logical solution.
December 8, 2009 at 2:43 pm
I’m sorry for this dumb question, but who is Sera-hime? I read part of a vol. 14 translation by a fan, but missed her name I guess.
December 8, 2009 at 2:49 pm
She’s Kurou’s daughter. Thus, Shuurei’s cousin.
December 8, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Yeah, I agree that would be dumb. I want to see a political solution to the political crisis.
She had better. If she were just going to let things naturally go along, that would be one thing, but she writes as though she were the sort of author who lets events push the characters.
December 7, 2009 at 9:07 am
(Please forgive any ignorance in this post. I’ve just finished season 2 of the anime, and have only read small translated bits of the light novels. I know nothing of novel 15, except that it was released recently. I haven’t checked to see if it’s on charmian has it on her blog here, so my apologies if it is.)
I think there’s going to be a season 3 of the anime… at least I hope there will be. There was what I thought a good part of the plot that never really got resolved at the end of season 2 because they ran out of episodes. (Not mentioning it in case anyone here hasn’t seen the end of the anime.) I think that it would make a decent start for a 3rd season, at any rate, but then again as at least one other person has already said, depending on how much longer the light novels go on for there might not be enough material for a 3rd season.
Re: character development, Ryuuki comes around at the very very end of the anime… better late than never I guess. That’s just my opinion though. I didn’t think the others changed too too much.
Having read the translated parts of volume 14 when Ryuuki makes his announcement to Shuurei, it’s relatively easy (IMHO) to guess what Ryuuki whispers in Shuurei’s ear at the end of the anime. But like others have said, the ending is still open to interpretation because nothing was officially mentioned.
Re: Ensei having feelings for Shuurei… I agree it compromises his original character a bit, but at the same time, the romantic in me finds it a little touching. But I’m a sap, so take my opinion with a huge grain of salt.
Deep down, I was hoping for the fairytale ending with Shuurei and Ryuuki, but that didn’t exactly happen as was already mentioned. I was hoping the anime would differ from the manga/LN in that sense, but apparently not. Guess I’ll just have to interpret the ending the way I’d hoped it would be.
That’s my 2 cents after having just finishing watching the anime. I will probably be looking around for more translations of volume 14, and 15 once they become available.
/sorry if this doesn’t make sense, it’s after 5am here and I haven’t been to bed yet.
December 7, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I forgot to ask, do you guys have any other websites/discussion boards/resources (besides this blog) where you guys get your information from? Everyone here sounds so knowledgeable about the series and I have only a couple of websites to draw from. I’ve tried checking Japanese wikipedia, but my Japanese is not very good and I can’t read most of what’s on the page.
Thanks in advance if you’re able to share anything with me.
December 7, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I think there is enough material for a third season, although if they do have one, I’m really wondering how they’re going to handle all of the gaiden stories. The first two gaidens had mostly stories set in the timeframe of the rest of the series. The other ones have a lot of stories that are set way before the events of the series.
Yeah, I found the Ensei thing weirdly gratuitous, but it doesn’t seem to have affected the story negatively too much, so it’s fairly ignorable.
Well, as for me, I read the novels and read Japanese blogs for info. You could try the Livejournal comm or various message boards dedicated to anime.
December 7, 2009 at 10:19 pm
You guys can all read Japanese well enough to read the blogs, or do you translate them somehow? I’d only be able to recent more than the bare minimum by running them through babelfish, for example, but then most of it comes out in gibberish because Japanese is so different from English.
I did try a couple of live journals, but when I log in and try to access them, I keep being told that I don’t have permission/access to read those blogs.
I’ll have to do a general search at some point I guess.
December 7, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Actually, I don’t think anyone here except for me can read Japanese well enough to read the blogs. You can also learn stuff by reading the Chinese forums. The Chinese fandom is actually much better than the English fandom when it comes to information, amount of fanfic, amount of spoilers, and most significantly translations. I think they have nearly everything translated into Chinese. Not really sure myself because I don’t know Chinese.
Oh, I mean you need to join the comm itself: http://community.livejournal.com/saiunkoku . Once you’ve joined, you can read their full archives, or you can post and ask the other people on the comm questions. I suggest asking there if you have any questions on the manga; I didn’t read the manga so I can’t really help you there.
December 7, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Ahhh, I knew there was something I was missing somewhere. Thank you so much charmian!
To find the chinese fandom, I should just be able to Google it?
I took Japanese in high school, and my mom is a Japanese professor, but I don’t speak enough anymore… however Saimono is seriously tempting me to start teaching myself Japanese again so I can read the blogs and light novels.
December 7, 2009 at 10:34 pm
@Nik
Yeah, let me know if you need any help. There should be FAQs on the LJ site explaining how to post to comms if you want to etc.
Yeah, googling it or using Baidu. The Baidu forums seem quite active. I look at them but I can’t understand what they’re saying because Chinese is even less machine-translatable than Japanese.
Heh, it’s worth it, I think. More so for the later volumes than the recent ones. The LJ comm in the locked entries does have some downloads of the more recent novels.
December 7, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Thank you thank you thank you! <3 *hug*
December 12, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Hi Charmian!
I am agree with you in point 6. Sometimes side stories can overcome the main plot… in this case, the author has been really clever in writing this awesome novel, with so many characters and relationships so entangled that I just love it!
December 12, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Yeah, it’s to the point where I am really beginning to wonder how much of the important stuff she’s going to continue to put in the gaidens. 0_o
December 13, 2009 at 10:39 pm
I think maybe someone updated the Saiunkoku character page for Shuurei, although I don’t recalling scrolling to the bottom last time I was on the page, so it might’ve been there for awhile.
Anyways, I think it might be a possible implied result for whether Shuurei and Ryuuki end up together: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryuki_Shi
**POSSIBLE SPOILER**
“At the end of the first season of the anime, Ryuki tells Shurei that she is the only consort he wants and he will wait for her for eternity. However, in the second season, Ryuki realizes that it is an Emperor’s duty to marry and produce heirs to the throne. He changes his mind about waiting forever and gives Shurei a time limit; if she continues to reject him, then Ryuki will take Jyūsan-hime Ran as his consort even though he only loves Shurei. According to Ruka Hyo, Ryuki shares the same fate as his father, Senka, who only loved one woman in his lifetime and was forced to marry other women for political reasons.
It is still unknown whether Shurei will eventually become his consort, but the novels’ narrator says that a painting by Yūkoku Heki (a genius artist from the Heki clan) of Shurei and Ryuki gazing at the sakura trees side by side will be famous for many years to come.”
Nothing is stated outright, but I interpreted it as meaning that even if they do end up together, it probably won’t be as king-and-consort, and may not happen for several years. Haha, maybe Jyuusan-hime will be consort and Shuurei will be the head lady-in-waiting?
December 13, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Sorry, make that **Ryuuki’s character page.
December 13, 2009 at 10:51 pm
You know, honestly I don’t remember that part in the novels. I looked, and I couldn’t find it, actually. Also, I mean the existence of the picture really doesn’t tell us anything, actually.
December 13, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Oh I know, I didn’t mean anything about the picture. I was just correcting myself because I’m really anal about details and I wanted to correct my mistake.
I wasn’t sure if the information had been posted elsewhere, so that’s why I added it. My apologies if I shouldn’t have.
December 13, 2009 at 11:02 pm
There is no need to apologize.
I felt confused when I saw that detail myself, though? I really have to ask someone who also read the novel on what page it was on. XD
December 13, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Ah ok.
It’d be interesting to hear their answer.
January 29, 2010 at 10:42 am
i agree with all.
especially no 6 i suppose, because as i read more recent novels, the plot seems to have shifted sideways and has become a much more serious and bigger one. (to the point the main character Shuurei wa super near death?)
i just read the comments underneath this post, and it made me think whether the author plotted this all the way to the end, realized it didn’t work, and decided to extend it by doing the following you described in no 2.
because i lose track of where and who is what really easily, its hard to remember what happened before. and that just makes reading the recent one even harder. (i have to refer to the previous one now and then.)
March 24, 2010 at 2:42 pm
um, yeah. i kinda agree with some of the weaknesses over there, (please don't throw flaming arrows at me!) i'm in the school paper and it requires you to learn about essays, stories how they are made and stuff. i sometimes lose track with it and have to review what happened in the past stories (sometimes). its been so long its hard to catch up and some of the plots or main ideas have been scrambled up its making the story, um… complicated. especially the relationship between shurei and ryuki (even though i rightfully think they should end up together but you can't blame shurei at all! she wants her career you know!) and it kinda makes sense that the backstories were a bit more liked than the current story 'cause back then it wasn't so… complicated. and i do slightly agree with #5 because the politics here really has you know…something, and the magic stuff was a tiny bit random. but i still like SaiMono.
NOTE: these are just MY OPINIONS. don't get angry with me if you don't agree. it's just an opinion.
August 16, 2010 at 5:22 am
Hey, just wanted to let you know you aren't the only one who feels this way. I actually agree with every single statements up there.
I would be happy if Shuurei ends up with any of the guys…. except Ryuuki. She's got a lot of other options out there, and if she really does end up being his Consort, then she's really not the girl I pecked her out to be. Shuurei needs to make her own worth, and not just live off a title. She's too smart and motivated to waster her life just being a wife.
And one of the things that got me into Saimono was the politics. It's handed so nicely, and it's a story that really makes you think.
Lastly, I want to thank you for all of the hard work you put into translating this. I would be going crazy without this here! Thanks so much!